Comment by Nas

January 27, 2006 @ 5:45 pm

looool man that was an awesome read. the best part was of course the boss. i can’t believe how people in our side of the world can give up on their convictions so quickly

when they are faced with a foreigner…tell’em what they want to hear so you can get their money.

Comment by Jordanian

January 27, 2006 @ 6:01 pm

I must say, that looks like a transcript from the the O’reilly factor.
I tend to agree with your client. As I like to say, if someone went up to a cave

today and came down saying god spoke to him we’d call him a schizophrenice. Some goat herders in Arabia 1600 years ago proclaimed him a prophet. The mind

boggles.
This whole cartoon issue is ridiculous. Having seen the cartoons and as arab (Jordanian, I hate qualifying myself with the such a vacuous term “arab”. I felt

absolutely no offence and felt that that they were actually quite funny. What’s all this crap about respect and whatnot. Nothing should be held sacrosanct, nothing sacred in

an open discussion.
The protests in themselves arent backward its what they’re protesting. i fail to take religion seriously , especially Islam. It’s this preoccupation with

religion that consumes the Arab world , that makes us backward bastards. Until we rid ourselcves of all this religiosity I fear we will never escape this vicious cycle of poverty,

oppression and degredation

Comment by NAR

January 27, 2006 @ 6:50 pm

Great interaction. I thikn freedom of

expression does not not mean saying whatevery you want however you want it. There are limits that are dictated by the context and start when one hurts others. It takes two

to express - the receiver also has rights to not me attackked or hurt. Why are there rules about public behaviour then in all countries, for example, if one is free to express

himself without bounds. These bounds are wider the more liberal a society is.

Pingback by The Black Iris of Jordan » Something is Rotten in the State of Denmark

January 27, 2006 @ 7:02 pm

[…] And this is why it’s no suprise to see any Muslim stand up to this despite how silly it may seem to non-Muslims. Related Posts:

[…]

Comment by Tololy

January 27, 2006 @ 8:56 pm

This is such a beautiful post, Eman. I thank you for sharing this with the

world. It is sad how some people feel second-class in front of non-Arabs, nodding at every pause, hailing every word, and letting others bash them with no logical base for

the act. They somehow forget that they, too, can be right sometimes.

Comment by UmZayd

January 27, 2006 @ 10:03 pm

I love the story. I faced similar

scenarios so many times. Good stand, Eman! I am proud of you.

Comment by Saqf

January 27, 2006 @ 10:44 pm

Way to go Eman! Barak Allah

feeki!

That was a great read!

I wish 10% of the people I know would keep their stance as you did.

Comment by The Absolutely Hilarious, Fabulously Wonderful Guy!

January 27, 2006 @ 10:52 pm

Bravo! Kudos to you, Eman. The truth well told.

Please do add a link

from your new blog to my Random Jottings, please.

Thank you and wassalam.

Azlan Adnan

Comment by Jameel

January 28, 2006 @ 8:26 am

Did this really happen? or is it presented as an anecdote. Great if it happened and great anecdote if it didn’t.

Comment by Ohoud

January 28, 2006 @ 8:40 am

A boss to be proud off :rolling eyes:

why is it that people in

power are the most coward ones to speak up their real mind!

Anyhow, enjoyed the read!

Comment by refugee

January 28, 2006 @ 12:30 pm

Ya Eman ,Good for you ,the client had

it coming (he did not know where and what he was stepping in ,and with whom he was dealing ) as for the boss you have to give him a credit !!!!!! if he dose not stand up to

please Clint’s !!! and if he did not appear complacent then he would not achieve his post/job objectives !!!! I would have loved to see the whole of what you described on a

clip of something like candid camera style footage ,just to see you Eman taking the poor client who thought that you and him are of the same kind ,simply because you speak

foreign languages . Bravo Eman single handed and your roll of the eyes part , you have defended this issue .Your work diaries are great ,my comment is tackling the matter

from the humerus side ,not the core of what transcribed .cant stop smiling ,just imagining the situation ,after words , did you or did you not get a lough out of it . please tell

me did you get a lough ,reread your post and get my feel .Irrespective I am proud of you .

Comment by Jimbo

January 28, 2006 @ 3:35 pm

Well done Eman! Few people have the

personal integrity to put their their job on the line for their principles. Always safer to just sit there, smile and nod pleasantly.

This cartoon was a very successful bit of

commercial art, if you grant that the goal of the satirical cartoonist is both entertainment and notoriety. Usually though, there’s a line they don’t cross, and, looking at

these, that line was crossed. It’s surprising, though, that those panels made it unchanged past the newspaper’s editor, who’s supposed to be the guardian of

social responsibility. (Possibly due to the widespread anti-Muslim hysteria in Europe? In fact, listening to some of the Europeans who pass through here now and then, one

would think that Charles Martel had just been defeated at Tours (732 C.E.) and that a Muslim army was sacking Western Europe.)

Little notice was taken of this

fracas in the U.S. Now had an American or European Muslim cartoonist depicted an armored Jesus leading a horde of cross-bearing Christians in the slaughter of Arab

women and children—Iraq comes to mind—all of them singing “Onward Christian Soldiers”… The newspaper would have been boycotted if not torched and the

cartoonist in hiding from our crazies. [You know, I think I may become a Buddhist. I can’t recall any armies ever marching and killing for Buddha.]

Three more

years of Bush. [virtual sigh] There’s a glimmer of hope that he’ll be impeached or forced to resign, but certainly not until after this year’s Congressional

elections. (Sadly, our Democratic Party lacks your courage and passion.)

Four more months ‘til the next hurricane season begins. (Happily, not your problem.

)

Best wishes from Florida.

Comment by Natalia

January 28, 2006 @ 7:16 pm

I’m going to cut and paste something I

said on another JP site, if that’s Ok with you. To deepend the issue a little bit. Or maybe not. Because I don’t think this is about backwardness at all. I think it’s largely a

political issue.

“The Danish cartoonists are protected under Danish law. Love it or hate it, freedom of speech is going to get SOMEBDOY’s feathers ruffled from

time to time.

Take it from me, I once nearly got my teeth knocked out for arguing about the Papacy’s nefarious dealings with the Nazis.

As an occasional

freelancer, I see no problem with protesting a particular article or image than one might deem offensive. Heck, I had a Muslim once try to argue me out of putting up images

of Girgioni’s nude Venus painting on my site, because it was, to him, offensive. I don’t mind that kind of criticism, it usually results in dialogue.

I do have a

problem with death-threats though. Following the murder of Theo Van Gogh, Denmark is in a bind over issues of free speech. The Danish need to reassert their rights and

test the waters. The cartoons are a normal extension of what happened to Theo Van Gogh.

I think the Saudi boycott is hilarious, considering all the human rights

abuses that happen in Saudi on a regular basis, not to mention the 500 Muslim detainees languishing in Camp Gitmo (hey, where’s the Saudi boycott over that?). It’s

all symbolic, it’s all meaningless. It’s all politics.”

Comment by refugee

January 28, 2006 @ 7:32 pm

Eman ,it is me again .Just wanted to

say I am so happy that I am on your side !!!you do know that .
The poor Clint he did not know what hit him .

Comment by bilotee

January 28, 2006 @ 8:23 pm

Eman you have been tagged

check:
http://bilotee.blogspot.com/2006/01/tagged.html

Comment by Eman

January 28, 2006 @ 10:29 pm

Nas, thanks,

I wish such people would finally get this: you either have beliefs or not, being double-faced is a very bad and shameful thing.

Jordanian, let me first clarify that your

comment didn’t appear immediately because this service I’m using needs my approval of new commentators, didn’t check the comments till today, it wasn’t

because I deleted it.
Anyway, I believe that since you fail to proudly identify yourself as an Arab, and fail to take Islam seriously, then this whole issue is something that

does not concern you, so you shouldn’t waste your time on it.
If you don’t relate to it, you can’t feel offence. I do, and so do the most of Muslims. I do agree with

you on the fact that Muslims do waste their time on silly things a lot of the time, I feel bad about that, but this issue, and ones like it, are worth a firm stand from our

side.

Nar, couldn’t agree more, you said it beautifully.

Tololy, glad you liked what I wrote. “They somehow forget that they, too, can be right

sometimes.” This is one perfect statement you made!

UmZayd, I’m so thankful for your support. I’m sure you face even more difficult situations since you

live abroad.

Saqf, thanks friend, it irritates me when I see people give up everything just to sound/look/be cool and admired by others who disagree with them! Thank

God I can’t be one of those!

Comment by Eman

January 28, 2006 @ 10:30 pm

Azlan,

thanks. Your link is added, sorry I missed it!

Jameel, it did really happen, all my work diaries are based on real life incidents. Thanks for the comment

anyway.

Ohoud, I really wonder why! the irony of life I guess

Refugee, your comments mean so much to me, and your support means so much more. I thank

you for everything.
I have to admit that the part of the client and the boss did make me laugh because it was expected, but I couldn’t help feeling a bit weak when

someone just like me showed how easy it can be to step aside from your own principles just to please others. (something I highly despise, we can prove our professionalism

with our hard work rather than letting go with our beliefs). Glad I could put a smile on your face

Jimboy, always cherish your take on things. I totally agree with you

on what you said.
As for Bush, good luck, and hope things will get better for you and your country.
But concerning the Hurricanes, it is my problem, it might not be a

direct thing I have to deal with, but it does concern me, and I wish you’ll always let me know you’re fine. I hope that the coming Hurricanes will be less brutal and that

you’ll all be safe and sound!

Natalia, thanks for your comment. Now political or not, you might know better than I do, I’m simply posting from the social side of

things, the stand of people like me, who, whether it seems silly or not, are highly offended by the cartoon.
I never said that we as Muslims are perfect people, no I admit

that there are MANY of us who suck, and violate human rights laws and so on.

Interfering in your choice of pics that you post on your own blog is really pointless,

whoever doesn’t like it, can simply stop coming back! But if you post a nude pic of that guy on your blog, then he has the right to feel offended and even sue you (this is

the whole difference).
Concerning death threats, they are bad, stupid and wrong, and so is war that is being waged on innocent people around the world, my point is:

Muslims aren’t the only stupid or wrong or aggressive people, every society has its share of shitty ones!

Bilotee, thanks for the tag, will reply shortly dear

Comment by Jimbo

January 29, 2006 @ 4:14 am

But concerning the Hurricanes, it is my

problem, it might not be a direct thing I have to deal with, but it does concern me, and I wish you’ll always let me know you’re fine. I hope that the coming Hurricanes

will be less brutal and that you’ll all be safe and sound!
====================================================
Thank you, Eman.

That’s very gracious of you. And may I say you’re doing very well in the supportive responses category? It’s a shame you don’t get paid a Krugerrand for each upbeat

comment–you wouldn’t long have to be concerned with a day job and boorish clients.

Upon reflection, you’re right of course, it is all our problem, as it’s global

warming spawning those massive hurricanes, despite the Bushies wishes to the contrary. (Seen today’s New York Times? They’re trying to muzzle some of our better

climatologists: http://www.nytimes.com/ But I’m afraid the genie is out of the bottle.)

We may all be wrapped up in the Sturm und Drang of war, politics, religion-

-and coping with the universal absolutes of mortgages and cellphone bills –but the water doesn’t care–it just keeps rising. (Did you see the movie “The Day After

Tomorrow?” Like that.)

If the Greenland ice sheath melts into the Atlantic, and the Great Conveyor Belt of the Gulf Current then turns off beneath a flood of cold

water, things here will get very cold and very wet very fast. The lowest point of land in Tunisia (Shatt al Gharsah at 17 m) is higher than the highest point of land in southern

Florida. Indeed, I’ve come to regret that when the African Development Bank moved from Adbidjan to Tunis, we were already settled back in the States. But here we are,

house, dogs, kids, jobs, and water, water everywhere.

Wouldn’t really mind the house blowing down, but as our government’s at best incompetent, we’ll all end up

in some wretched refugee camp masquerading as temporary housing–I believe you’re familiar with how that works?–or out on the streets while the insurance companies

take a few years to get around to paying out.

Lastly, there’s a delighful global warming video at
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002648.html In fact,

it’s so popular, you may have seen it, cosmopolitan soul that you are.

Take care.

Cheers.

Comment by Batir Wardam

January 29, 2006 @ 5:28 pm

Graet story Eman, and what I like most is the remarkable accuracy and simplicity in which you have portrayed the perspective

of an non-fundamentalist, muslim person who is open-minded but still proud of his culture.
I am a secular, almost athiest Jordanian but I am so offended by the Danish

cartoonist since the drawings really insult my Islamic culture. Islam is a religion that has respected all prophets and scripts, and we need to be shown more respect. As for

“freedom of speech” it does not include offending the symbols of other religions. If the cartoonist had drawn any thing offensive to the Jewish community in Denmark or the

EU he would face severe professional consequences. I am glad that muslims have finally arranged a non-violent campaign to protect their culture and religion, the same way

the Jews do.

Comment by Devil's Mind

January 29, 2006 @ 6:07 pm

I have to agree with both, Jordanian and Natalia. Its a shame to see such

intolerant reactions from some people to these cartoons.
I want remind people that not only Islam is recieving criticism: almost all religions and ideologies recieve a fair

amount of criticism, but i can only hear muslims reacting out of portion towards those criticisms.
I means whats with people today, boycotting every little thing they dont

like… grow up: get over it!
Allow me to say Eman: i think, although the client (seemingly) has been convinced, your arguement is flaw, or maybe its not. Let me

elaborate:

[quote]Eman: But what? If I start drawing silly cartoons of your mother and humiliate her worldwide, would you still be friends with me?[/quote]
I have

seen several cartoons showing Sharon as some pig… guess u’ve seen that. Bush was shown in many contexts of cartoons being mocked….
have u seen organized

boycott campaigns as a reaction? have those people been concerned about what the children of those people felt? Guess Bush and Sharon are parents too.

This

doesnt show if the act in itself is ethical, but shows how intolerant the boycott reactions are.

Back to the main point: First of all, a big guideline for positive arguement

is to avoid personal loop backs. This probably made the client agree with you, although he might have not genuinely been convinced by your arguement.
Freedom of

speech can sting; thats both natural and constructive, because through open criticism opinions can be expressed and discussed.

Comment by Eman

January 30, 2006 @ 9:45 am

Jimboy, thanks for the sweet words and support.

You’re absolutely right, we’ll all pay for messing up with

nature, global warming is really showing all over the planet, but we, humans, are too good to reconsider our shameful violations of nature, which has been abused by us in

the ugliest way ever.
Yeah, I’ve seen the movie, and I admit I’ve panicked because I know this might really happen.
I hope I’m not being too optimistic, but

I think that after the reaction of media and the public of the first Hurricane-aid failure, I believe your government might have better plans for relief efforts. Please take care of

yourself and your family, try to go somewhere safe and I truly pray that the power of the hurricane will be under control.
Thanks for the video, didn’t watch it

before.

Batir, I respect you so much, because you have exactly said what I wish people would finally understand, it’s not about religion alone, it’s also related

to a culture which is mainly based on religion.
I’m glad you left a comment, and I appreciate your stand although you’re almost atheist.

Comment by Eman

January 30, 2006 @ 9:47 am

Devil’s Mind,
“Its a shame to see such intolerant reactions from some people to these

cartoons.”
So the cartoons drawing a prophet as suicide bomber are OK, but the reactions protesting them are intolerant! the irony!

“I

means whats with people today, boycotting every little thing they dont like… grow up: get over it!”
There’s a VERY BIG difference between things we

don’t like and others we DON’T ACCEPT!
We don’t like war, we don’t like other countries boycotting our own countries, we don’t like other

countries taking control of our natural resources, we don’t like media portraying us as terrorists all the time, but still WE GOT OVER IT, although we shouldn’t! What I

really wish is that people like yourself will stop JUDGING every little thing we do simply because you don’t like it!
I mean if we’re nothing but some backward

bastards who are good for nothing but terrorism, why should you even care if we protest and boycott or not!

“I want remind people that not only Islam is

“I have seen several cartoons showing Sharon as some pig… guess u’ve seen that. Bush was shown in many contexts of cartoons being

and Sharon are parents too.”
Please be aware of the difference between a political figure and a religious one, our leaders are till this very moment been

portrayed negatively in cartoons, we did not boycott nor protest, because the goal of the cartoon was to reflect political position, the cartoons of the prophet had no other

goal but insult and provoke racism!
But just for the record, I would like you to know, that even if any other religious figure was humiliated and their people didn�

�t speak up for him/her, it’s their own choice, Muslims don’t have to imitate other people’s reaction lest they’ll be pointed by finger, we are a whole culture,

we have our own societies and existence, and we have the full right to react the way we want and defend our culture.

Comment by Devil's Mind

January 30, 2006 @ 2:35 pm

[quote]and we have the full right to react the way we want and defend our culture.[/quote]
agreed!

[quote]Its a shame to see such intolerant reactions

from some people to these cartoons.”
So the cartoons drawing a prophet as suicide bomber are OK, but the reactions protesting them are intolerant! the irony!

[/quote]
nah, thats not what i am saying… first of all, lets face it: if those Denmarkies cartoonists lived in an arabic country, they would have been dead already… it needs

no smartass to guess that. but since they are not already dead, my assumption is meaningless.
The major difference between me and you is that you view those

cartoons as a personal attack; i see it as expression of opinion. An honest opinion i’d say.
Since those guys had the decency to tell you exactly how they feel about your

religion, a more apropriate campaign (in my personal humble opinion) is an awareness campaign, rather than a boycott campaign.
But i see that we dont agree on the

basic assumption i am making, that those cartoons are expression of opinion rather than a racist attack.

Comment by Devil's Mind

January 30, 2006 @ 4:20 pm

Let me just put one thing straight:
I think that boycotting and protesting is a perfectly legitimate way to express an

opinion. And you have all the right to express your opinion in those cartoons. Thats not what we are disagreeing upon.
I am only saying is that, in my opinion, boycotting

isnt the best way to express urself. Yet, its natural that each person has a different way to express: some people express with violence; others express with boycotting; there

are some who express with cartoons; and hell there are people who just dont make any reaction, and choose not to express at all.
I am not saying which way is better

than the other: what i am saying is, express you disagreement; but guess most countries want to repress those danish cartoonists. Thats all i am saying.
But at the end of

the day; to each his own, and im no sarcred authority to take my word for granted.

Comment by Candide's Notebooks

January 30, 2006 @ 8:31 pm

Your post on Cartoongate was chosen as one of two featured posts in our Daily Bloggerback/Best of Blogs segment at Candide’s Notebooks (click on

the web address attached to this comment). We don’t quite agree with your position, but appreciate the perspective.

Comment by Barbara

January 30, 2006 @ 10:35 pm

I love this

post!
Well done, my dear…I wish all Arabs would speak this way…

Hugs and good luck for everything!!

O.t. I’m about to set up my own blog,

actually I have one but I post once every blue moon so I don’t know if I’ll just renew my old one or create a new one.
Anyway, I’ll do my best to join you in one of your

meetups, it sounds so cool!!

Pingback by Too Much Cookies Network » Kauffreiheit

January 31, 2006 @ 9:01 am

[…]

Ich möchte noch auf die Argumentation auf Aquacool aufmerksam machen, da sie meiner Meinung nach, den Konflikt auf den Punkt bringt. Darin unterhält sie sich mit

einem Geschäftspartner der Firma, in der sie arbeitet: Eman: I am tolerant, you are NOT. I am open-minded, you are Not! You lecture us about how we should live, how we

should act, what we should say, and how we should react, but you free yourselves from every restriction in the name of democracy, and if we speak up you ask us to mind

our own business? Client: So now you are the civilized, democratic ones! Eman: No, we still have a long way to go. But there’s a very fine line between democracy and

racism; between freedom of expression and disrespect. I might not totally agree with punishing the Cartoonist himself, but I am definitely with drawing lines to the

relationship with any country that humiliates our religion. You’re free to express, and so are we! […]

Comment by adib

February 1, 2006 @ 2:00 am

i’agree with you

aquacool!

Comment by Kieran

February 1, 2006 @ 2:42 am

Way to go Eman. I am new to your blog, but I am very interested in your point-of-view. I am a Middle

Eastern History major at university now in the US. I see every day good friends of mine, most Arab, all Muslim, who are afraid to say what they feel for fear of repriasal and

being branded a “terrorist”. They wait until we are having coffee in a small place before they tell me what they really think and that is sad. For a country that speaks so much

about “freedom of speech” and the like, it seems as though those freedoms are only for a few. Your story hit home with me because I make it a point to give them the voice,

in the classes, and say what they wish they could. It makes me feel good to give my friends a voice, but I wish that one day, God willing, they will feel free to use their own.

Thank you for all that you do and keep up the good work.

Comment by Eman

February 1, 2006 @ 10:03 am

Devil’s Mind, Thank you for keeping this discussion a

positive one rather than turning it into a shameless fight
Well, you are right, “The major difference between me and you is that you view those cartoons as a

personal attack; i see it as expression of opinion”.
See, Al Qaida members have been drawn in cartoons in the most humiliating way ever, no one can ever blame

anyone for doing that because that, in my opinion, is a real expression of opinion, based on real life incidents.
If the Danish cartoonist wanted to express such a feeling, he

could have drawn Osama Bin Laden for example, but drawing the prophet means 1 thing: Islam is a terrorist intolerant religion, i.e. all Muslims are terrorists and intolerant,

which is not an expression of an opinion but an expression of hatred towards Muslims altogether: i.e. racism.
I’m not trying to convince you here, I’m just

explaining why I believe we have the right to be offended, and trying to reflect our shock as Arabs and Muslims is that we are denied the right to say no to anything and have

been called intolerant for protesting.
I agree with you, boycotting isn’t the best way, but it is a peaceful way at least as you said. You might be so right about the aim

of this whole thing to be political, but whether political or not, we were used, and we want to say that we were offended and hope not to be used again!

“lets

face it: if those Denmarkies cartoonists lived in an arabic country, they would have been dead already…it needs no smartass to guess that.”
This is our disaster

Devil’s mind, people believe Muslims kill anyone against them and their religion! Your assumption could be true, not because of Islam, but terrorism. I believe if the

cartoonist was in an Arabic country, he will never draw such a thing because he would already know we’re not like that, but if he did it anyway, then I think he’ll be

expelled rather than killed.

Awareness campaigns always help, but they proved being pointless against the media lies. I mean we produce programs, movies and

websites in foreign languages, we blog worldwide about our culture and religion, but still people think we are terrorists! Have we got any chance in making our picture look

better? Yes, only if the other part is willing to listen.

Comment by Eman

February 1, 2006 @ 10:04 am

Candide’s Notebooks, thank you for featuring my post.

I respect you doing that although you don’t totally agree with my point of view, this is so civilised, tolerant and open-minded. And I hope you know, that what I wrote

doesn’t aim at changing anyone’s mind, it’s just me reflecting our stand as Muslims and the reasons behind it.

Barbara, I appreciate your comment so

much! Thanks dear.
As for your blog, you don’t need to blog on daily basis, it’s your own space, the timing, subjects and style is all yours Please let me know

when you get back to blogging.
And we’d love to have you in one of our meetups, that’s for sure

Too much cookies, Ich bedanke mich sehr für deine

die Unterstützung.

Adib, Thank you my friend.

Kieran, I appreciate your comment. And I respect your stand so much. You’re so honest and helpful, being

your friends’ voice is so impressive, having the courage to speak up for them and understand their real emotions and reactions is not easy!
I wish more people will be

like you, the world would have definitely become a better place to live.
On behalf of all your friends, and all our societies, I thank you with all my heart.

Comment by John Teller

February 2, 2006 @ 2:10 am

Eman (and the

rest of you Arabs and Muslims), for a look at why we Westerners are so disturbed by Muslims, I recommend this site:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

You may

also want to see these sites:

http://pytheasonline.blogspot.com/
http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/

Many of the articles concern Muslims and the threat

they pose to Western societies. Muslims immigrants in Europe have brought what is seen by many as a a plague of criminality, dangerous fundamentalism and intolerant

customs (honor killings for example).
You can argue that Islam does not, in fact, condone many of these things and you may be right, but the fact remains that the Muslim

populations in Europe are at the center of these problems.

One of these sites mentions that the mostly Muslim immigrant population in a Scandanavian country,

Sweden, commit up to two-thirds of all rapes. Certainly Islam does not condone this behavior, but why are Muslim men associated with such high rates of rape. Doesn’t it

say something about the negative and degrading attitudes towards women promoted by Islam?

Another site points out Saudi Arabia’s ridiculous reaction to the Danish

cartoon situation given Saudi Arabia’s long time promotion of hate speech against Jews and other non-Muslim people in government sanctioned literature.

Muslims

are apparently unconcerned about the hateful and intolerant speech promoted in Arab countries.
When is the last time you saw Muslims protest Saudi Arabia for

anti-Jewish and anti-Christian hate speech? How many Muslims even bother to speak out against such things?

Also check out Wikipedia’s article on the “Protocols of

the Elders of Zion” and how Arab nations have used this anti-Semitic forgery over the years. When have Muslims protested this?

Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

When hate speech involves Muslims, the condemnation is only reactive (kind of like Muslim

condemnations of terrorism). That is, Muslims only condemn such things when they are mentioned by non-Muslims, never when they are bantied about among their

co-religionists.

Trackback by Opinionated Voice

February 2, 2006 @ 2:16 am

The Inconsistency of the Cartoon Row…

Although the Danish newspaper apologised, many European newspapers have reprinted the slanderous

cartoons. Some have called it solidarity, I call it collective slander. Apparently Europe does not realise the difference between ‘freedom of speech’……

Comment by jamal

February 2, 2006 @ 2:41 am

Although the Danish newspaper apologised, many European newspapers have reprinted the slanderous cartoons. Some have

called it solidarity, I call it collective slander. Apparently much of Europe does not realise the difference between ‘freedom of speech’ and unacceptable slander. At

least Great Britain did not jump on the bandwagon like the rest of these losers did.

While supposed ‘freedom of speech’ advocates chant on one side and

Muslims argue for an apology on the other, I wonder whether this row would be so popular if it had not centered on Islam. The media has already proven to be

islamophobic, and reading comments on this issue at this blog and others will evidence that many backing the newspapers are also against Islam.

As stated by Omar

and Aquacool, the inconsistency is that when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad denied the Holocaust there was an uproar and calls for him to retract his “anti-semitic” words.

When a photograph that showed American coffins on their way back from Iraq was deemed offensive there was an uproar and the photographer lost her job. In each case

action was taken against the so-called transgressor and the world did not come together to reprieve them, chanting freedom of speech and expression as a

justification.

The first consistency so far in this issue is that Managing Editor of France Soir, the paper which has reprinted the cartoons, has been sacked. No doubt

many will argue this is wrong, when the reality is that this should have been the standard from the outset.

Trackback by Subzero Blue

February 2, 2006 @ 8:40 am

The Danish Cartoons…

I briefly wrote about the Danish and Norwegian papers that featured Prophet Mohamed PBUH caricatures in my post Freedom

of Racism. But ever since that, there has been an explosion of reactions in the Muslim world, both online and offline. The blogosphe…

Comment by Eman

February 2, 2006 @ 9:43 am

Dear John Teller, I and the Arab & Muslim

societies understand why you Westerners feel hatred towards Muslims. As you said, many of the Muslim immigrants have brought nothing but trouble to your communities.

But not ALL immigrants have been like that, there are many Immigrants who have brought their skills and talents and played a role in the development of their new countries.

Which assures you that it’s all about the person and not his/her religion. So if the cartoons portrayed the trouble-making immigrants, that’s totally freedom of

expression, but to condemn a whole religion with terror, that’s really racist! But still, we said ok, if you feel it was ok to be racist in the name of freedom of expression,

then fine, but we also have the right to show our dismay! It’s simple.

On the other hand, I thank you for sharing these links, but believe me, media does nothing

but spread lies about us! Muslims might commit rape and crimes, they’re human, and they have the good and the bad, but they’re not the only ones. We, the

backward Arabs, have internet access and satellite channels, we watch stories about western neighborhoods, and that westerners too are no saints, drugs and crimes of

parents raping their own children and so on… we all have our share of evil members.
“Certainly Islam does not condone this behavior, but why are Muslim men

associated with such high rates of rape. Doesn’t it say something about the negative and degrading attitudes towards women promoted by Islam?”
It says

something that’s not promoted by Islam, but promoted by western media, and cartoons like the ones Europe is proudly reprinting only enhance this wrong picture of us

Muslims.

“Muslims are apparently unconcerned about the hateful and intolerant speech promoted in Arab countries. When is the last time you saw Muslims

protest Saudi Arabia for anti-Jewish and anti-Christian hate speech? How many Muslims even bother to speak out against such things?”
I guess someone as

educated as you should know better. But again it’s this false reputation that we’re good at nothing but criticizing the west! If you follow our blogs you’ll find that

we criticize our own communities as well but for some reason you don’t see that!
But just for the record, Saudis don’t promote hatred towards non-Muslims, they

say no for occupation, a big difference! And their stand towards Denmark is not ridiculous but natural, peaceful and right.

“That is, Muslims only condemn such

things when they are mentioned by non-Muslims, never when they are bantied about among their co-religionists.”
Your info need to be corrected, we condemn

occupation, not religions, because for your info, Muslims do believe that Islam is just a continuation of the message of other religions, if a Muslim does not believe in another

prophet, he/she are not considered Muslims!! I hope Westerners will finally understand that!
Anyway, seems you’ve suffered a lot from bad immigrants, and your

hatred makes you feel our reaction is ridiculous and intolerant (compared to what immigrants do in your countries), you’re free to think whatever you like, but try to avoid

generalizing. We treat western immigrants so good in our own countries, and westerners are so happy in our countries they choose their spouses from our countries, many

return with their spouses to the west. Not all immigrants are illegal, not all are criminals, they are people you can fall in love with and work with peacefully and happily.

Comment by Eman

February 2, 2006 @ 9:49 am

Jamal, very well said! totally agree with you.

Comment by John Teller

February 2, 2006 @ 8:16 pm

Hi, Eman

I wanted to

respond to some of your comments:

It says something that’s not promoted by Islam, but promoted by western media, and cartoons like the ones Europe is

proudly reprinting only enhance this wrong picture of us Muslims.

But just for the record,

and right.

Indonesia to Iraq to Sudan to Europe, heinous violence and Islam appear hand-in-hand.

Comment by no one

February 2, 2006 @ 10:47 pm

i’m so proud of u. u just stated what

ikking in my mind.

Comment by John Teller

February 3, 2006 @ 1:29 am

How is this for Muslim piety? It

turns out that Danish Muslims have fabricated some of the cartoons that are inflaming the Muslim world.

Where is the outrage of this sort of fabrication? Are Muslims

going to hold demonstrations against Danish Muslims for this outrage?

See:
http://counterterror.typepad.com/the_counterterrorism_blog/2006/02/fabricated_cart.html

Comment by M. A. Khadra

February 3, 2006 @ 5:34 am

Hey sis, nice Post. As a Muslim, in my “humble” opinion:

1- Cartons/Caricatures are a great way to

express a “FACT” in a sarcastic manner. The reason for the outrage for those Cartons/Caricatures is that they are NOT expressing a “FACT” at all. Our great

prophet “Mohammad P.B.U.H.” left this world 1400 years ago; if anyone wants to show him as someone other than what he really is; we as Muslims demand a solid

proof – not from government controlled media or URLs created by god knows who – of that.

2- Double standard: If you make fun of anything to do with Muslims

you are expressing your “Freedom of speech”, HOWEVER, if you make fun of Jews – the holocaust for example – then you are “ANTI SEMETIC”. Dare anyone

in the western world cross this red line? They’ll be screwed so fast “by their own governments” that they won’t even know what hit them. Looks to me that �

�Freedom of speech” does have its limits after all!!!!

3- Finally Islam as a religion demands that “ALL” Muslims “MUST” respect all people from all

races, ethnic backgrounds and yes “ALL” religions. If someone broke this Rule then point the finger at “THEM” NOT at the religion itself. After all followers are

humans not gods or prophets. Mass global western media is a tool – guess who is controlling it? – that is deliberately hiding this point and is spreading mass hatred

towards Muslims. So far they have succeeded in using this tool to manipulate public opinion like chess pieces to fuel their war machine. This Crap has to stop, and if we

don’t stop it now “all of us”, we’ll be practically giving full control of our planet to the few who are controlling this tool.

Comment by John Teller

February 3, 2006 @ 7:07 am

M.A. Khadra stated:

“Mass global western media is a tool – guess who is controlling it?”

Who is controlling

the western media? I’ll take a guess. I bet, like too many Muslims, you believe it is those ‘bloodsucking Jewish parasites’ right?

Do you also believe that Jews use

the blood of Muslim children in their Passover cookies? Or maybe you believe the entire Holocaust is a hoax, right?

You just got through stating that Islam demands

high standards of truth and respect for all races, and then you concluded by implying something both entirely false and completely anti-semitic.

You sicken me.

Comment by John Teller

February 3, 2006 @ 8:27 am

Eman,

I just wanted to mention that I loved your story and understand

your point of view on this issue. I generally enjoy your blog. I’m sorry if I come across angry or spiteful at times. You seem like a nice enough person.

Comment by Eman

February 3, 2006 @ 2:32 pm

John Teller, I am not denying that

Muslims do have horrible people among them, I’m just trying to say that Muslims are not always the ones responsible for crimes around the world and are not the only

bad ones. I hope you understand my point here.

Again, I must disagree with you on the Saudi issue, they don’t promote anti-Semitism, and I hope you’ll

realize we as Arabs are Semites do. Anyway, you mean they express hatred towards Christianity and Judaism, yes, some do, but not all. Just like in the west some hate us

like hell and some don’t. It’s normal. You can’t say all Saudis hate non-Muslims because some of their scholars say so… again freedom of expression.

I

mean no offence really, but I don’t care what others say about the occupation of Palestine, because I don’t need media to know what’s going on there, I am from

there, I have people who still live there, and I really wish, that concerned people like you could have the right resources, because it’s such a shame to have people think

we’re just a bunch of liars.
See, a Saudi condemning the exaggeration in using the holocaust for the profit of the Israelis is called racist, while someone simply writing

that we’re liars is freedom of expression and a very strong proof we’re not worth believing!
Many pro-Palestinian Jews condemn the occupation and write bravely

about the truth, why are those not taken as a proof!
Just because Palestinians stand no chance against the Israeli control of media and press, does not mean you should

simply give up on us!

The first act of terrorism brought to the region was applied by Jewish extremists against the British army, when they blew up a hotel full of

English soldiers and Palestinian workers, back when England gave itself the right to implant a so-called Israel in the middle of Palestine. To be safe, England left the whole

land for the Israelis, and didn’t build any walls to protect Palestinians back then, and massacres started taking place, and yes you’re right, Arabs were of no good,

they left Palestinians to be killed, and many –till this very moment- hate the existence of Palestinian refugees in some camps in their countries.
I’m not blaming any

one here, what’s done is done, but I can’t simply agree when someone says that Palestinians lie and Israel is the victim.
I hope you’ll never ever be under

occupation John, but imagine if you were, everything will be possible to protect yourself… everything’s fair in love and war they say in the west!
I can condemn

suicide bombers forever, talking is easy, way easier than living oppression day after day after day…
“It seems like the Muslim community spends far more time

seem to be associated with religious violence and intolerance”.
I don’t blame you for thinking this, I blame us who are not reaching out to you really well, but I

can assure you, every effort is being made to spread awareness about our culture and religion, how we really live and think and deal with others, and I’m sure one day

the world will get to understand us and know that Islam is a religion of moderation and peace.
“I don’t buy this either”
Neither do we John. There is

no justification whatsoever for killing innocent people, regardless of their nationality or religion, as long as they’re not threatening your own life.
Muslim scholars have

been focusing on this point so much lately, violence is a sin, and using it requires strict punishment.
Again attacking Christians is an act of terror, but Muslims are being

attacked too, I received links of some Hindus having parties where they simply kidnap a muslim, torture him till death –while partying- and then cut his body into pieces, all

caught on tape, I hope I still have the link.
That doesn’t justify attacking Christians of course, I’m just saying every extremist is intolerant and attacks people from

other religions, this is the sad fact about life.
Why go so far, just today, as some militants in Palestine protested and asked for an apology for the cartoons and closed the

EU offices, Hamas leader immediately went on air and clearly stated that he will protect every Christian in Palestine, and will not allow any anger-driven militants to even

touch them.

Brother, M.A.Khadra, very well said, you said it all fantastically.

John Teller,
“Who is controlling the western

media? I’ll take a guess. I bet, like too many Muslims, you believe it is those ‘bloodsucking Jewish parasites’ right?”
It takes no genius to know Jews

control media, they had a whole report on CNN once showing the contributors to media and movie making industries! We all know they have the many and the power. Ask

anyone on the street in any society and they’ll answer you, it’s not because we Muslims are such pathetic losers and blame it always on the jews as many think, it�

�s because it simply is a true fact everyone knows!
“Do you also believe that Jews use the blood of Muslim children in their Passover cookies? Or maybe you

believe the entire Holocaust is a hoax, right?”
I don’t think that M.A.Khadra’s comment suggested anything that deserves this mockery John, we don’t

believe in the nonsense you’ve stated above of course, and have no time to waste on such silly things, so please don’t use this way in a discussion on

AquaCool.
“You sicken me.” “I generally enjoy your blog. I’m sorry if I come across angry or spiteful at times. You seem like a nice enough

person.”
I have to warn you that if you ever use such a way of addressing anyone else on this blog I will have to block you. I spend so much time and effort on this

blog to succeed in leading positive and fruitfull discussions. If you believe in freedom of expression you should tolerate a sincere and honest comment from someone who

respects other religions more than you obviously do. And the last thing I want is for this blog to be a cheap place for fights.
And just for the record, the one who sickens

you is my own brother, who played a VERY BIG role in making me turn out to be the nice enough person you said I was, who introduced me and the rest of the family to the

internet and who was always someone we look up to in his open-minded way of thinking and tolerant approaches.
I will accept your apology and hope that you’ll

realize that conversation is the only way to improvement.

No one, thanks a lot for the comment.

Comment by Johnny in Jihadistan

February 3, 2006 @ 9:01 pm

My only question is: Where are the voices of Islam AGAINST terrorism. Why is there so little dialogue condemming the murder of

innocents by Muslim fundalmentalist? Let’s hear the outrage about THAT. Boycot the countries, ALL the countries, that support and condone violence of ANY sort as a means

for reaching political goals. I’ve been waiting for years but have heard only a few whispers from the Muslim world. If there were more Muslim voices being raised in this

manner you can bet it would have a positive effect worldwide. I suspect the lack of condemnation is fear of your own fundamentalists. Just a thought.

Comment by John Teller

February 3, 2006 @ 9:58 pm

Eman,

Saudi issue one last time: The point I am making is not that all Saudi people are evil or

support terrorism. The point I am making is that it is absurd for the Saudis to take diplomatic action (like withdrawing their ambassador) against countries like Denmark

when a private non-governmental publication produces something that offends them, while at the same time anti-Jewish and anti-Christian sentiment is rife in that country

and is often directly promoted by the Saudi government. The same government that can demand that the Danes do something about this cartoon problem do nothing about

the hate in their own society (aside from finance it). Furthermore, this sort of hateful commentary doesn’t appear to provoke the ire of the Muslim community, at least not

nearly as much as the Mohammad cartoon thing has for instance, even though it is far more common and even though Muslims are constantly claiming they just want to be

tolerated and accepted like Christians and Jews. It is a double-standard. The same applies not just for Saudis but also for many other Arab and Muslim

countries.

As far as your dispute ove the term ‘anti-semitic’ is concerned, the term ‘anti-semitism’ was originally framed to refer specifically to dislike of Jews. It

did not include Arabs when the term was phrased. I usually would use the term anti-Arab if I were referring specifically to dislike of Arabs. It is fully possibly for people to

hate Jews and like Arabs and vice versa. I am fully aware that Arabs are of Semitic ethnic extraction and speak a Semitic language just like the Phoenicians, Aramaeans,

Assyrians, Babylonians and Hebrews did.

You say you want and honest and fruitful discussion, but is clear you don’t want anyone serioulsy questioning the standard

Arab/Palestinian take on the Israeli-Palestinian problem. I guess there can be no fruitful discussion on this particular issue if you are not open to any other viewpoint. That is

fine, most Arabs I’ve discussed this conflict with don’t care to debate the fine details of the subject; they insist they are right and that is that. Fine, it is your blog, Eman, I

won’t bring it up any further. There would be no point.

About the mass media being controlled by Jews. You agree? Really? Let us take a look. First of all none of

the Arab media is controlled by Jews. al-Jazeera isn’t owned by Jews is it? I doubt Jews have any presence in the Arab media (other than as sinister caricatures in the Arab

imagination).

How about the American media? There are many Jews in the American media that is true. Then again, there are also many non-Jewish people. Ted

Turner, the founder of CNN and Rupert Murdoch (a non-Jewish Australian who owns numerous media outlets throughout the United States, Australia and the United

Kingdom), the founder and owner of Fox News - probably America’s biggest news outlets are both non-Jewish. Countless non-Jewish people are involved in financing and

running the day to day business of these media companies. Are they all involved in some sort of pro-Jewish conspiracy also?

The idea that the media is entirely

controlled by Jews is a myth. Furthermore, whenever people suggest that Jews control the media, they imply that Jews control it for some nefarious purpose such as

defaming Arabs or world control. It implies that their is some sort of conspiracy afoot by Jews. They are making the claim that Jews get together and collaborate about

common interests and work together to promote some sort of agenda. This is utter nonsense. People who claim this never provide even a shred of evidence that this is the

case. In fact, the evidence that is available is completely opposed to what they suggest: Not only do they not collaborate with one another, they are often fierce competitors,

as one might expect of successful people in business.

Most Jews in the business world are primarily interested in being successful in their chosen fields, not in

advancing a shadowy agenda. Jews tend to be a well-educated ethnic group in the United States, thus they have a high degree of representation fields like medicine,

science, the law and business. Simply being successful is no reason to hate people. Arabs, along with many other people, could probably learn a few things from this

success, such as the fact that Jews place a very high priority on education and set high standards in regards to education.

I think Arabs are sometimes a little jealous

that they haven’t been as successful. If they were more open-minded and democratic and had societies that tolerated more honest and open discourse, they probably would

be more successful. What little economic success Arabs can cite is primarily due to the fortunate accident of being located on vast petroleum reserves not based on any

particular set of beneficial traits that Arab cultures possess..

As I’m sure your aware, Arabs many centuries ago were very innovative and successful at a time when

Europeans were experiencing their Dark Ages. However, over the past several centuries they have been stagnant and have fallen behind the West.

What happened?

Among othe reason, I believe Arabs, during their Golden Age, were in many ways more open-minded and tolerant of divergent opinions and less fundamentalist and

dogmatic than they are today. I think the idea of a Taliban-like regime, for instance, would have been abhorrent to the Arabs of that age. Today, many (albeit a minority,

though not an insignificant one) would support such fundamentalist regimes in their societies. I think the Arab mind has become more closed and Arabs have become less

tolerant in many ways.

Believe it or not, Nara, just as you claim your are trying to inform those us of in the West that Arabs are people just like everybody else, I have

to tell you, Jews are just people like everybody else. There is no reason to suggest they constitute some sort of diabolical cabal any more than there is to believe that most

Arabs are engaged in any sort of vast conspiracy to force their Islamic culture down non-Muslims’ throats.

I am not Jewish but some of my in-laws are. In your post

you talked about how somebody would naturally be offended by demeaning cartoons of somebody’s relatives. How would you feel if somebody, with insulting words backed

by no factual evidence, defamed your relatives? I think you would be very offended.

Comment by Eman

February 6, 2006 @ 3:50 pm

Johnny in Jihadistan,
I understand

that you and many others believe that we, Muslims, never criticize or protest unless the west is concerned. But I can assure you that our reactions to terrorism is as strong.

Maybe the westerners don’t read what we write or don’t follow up on Muslims that much unless they’re concerned as well… just a thought.

Anyway, the

Arabs and Muslims have been holding anti-terror campaigns in every field of life. The Arab blogosphere has the biggest share (because English written blogs mostly target

international readers including Arabs, but when an Arab writes in Arabic, then (s)he writes to convey a special message to Arab readers. Many of these Arab blogs are being

translated to English so that English-speakers can really know what’s cooking in the Arab world.
On the other hand, Muslim scholars condemn Terrorism and violence

so strongly on every TV channel and in every speech they hold during prayers. Books have been written, websites have been launched to spread awareness in digging deep

to the roots of terrorism and how to fight it.
Not to forget the unbelievable efforts being paid in the movie industry and arab TV series, almost all must discuss this issue

and show how terrorism is evil, destructive and fatal to all.
The movie-industry especially grew after 9/11.

Muslims also protest, throw speeches, hold vigils every

time a terrorist act takes place. For example, after the beheading of Nicholas berg in Iraq, the Arab world both online and offline went crazy condemning such an inhuman

act!

Also you might check online some references to the reaction of the Muslim and Arab world after Amman bombings, or the Assassination of Lebanese Rafeeq Al

Hariri for example.
We always have strong reactions, and I hope the west will understand that.

Pingback by Global Voices Online » Blog Archive » Arab Bloggers Take on Danish Cartoons

February 6, 2006 @ 3:54 pm

[…]

While Eman articulates the Arab point of view in a heated exchange with a company client at work, Khalidah attempted to investigate the other side of the argument by taking

a journey around the blogosphere. Concluding: “Isn’t the way we deliver the message is as important as the message itself? Sometimes delivering the right

message using the wrong method defeats the purpose and kills the initiative.” […]

Comment by Eman

February 6, 2006 @ 4:36 pm

John Teller, I completely understood

your point regarding Saudis, but seems that we disagree on a main issue: I don’t believe that Saudis promote anti-Christian or anti-Jewish sentiments. Many non-Muslims

work there happily, have their families there, one of them is my friend, who is Christian Arab married to a Christian American, and isn’t wishing to leave the country

because she’s happy.

“was originally framed to refer specifically to dislike of Jews” that’s right, and my reply earlier was to show how wrong and

inaccurate this whole expression is because Arabs are Semites as well.
But I would also like to draw your attention that Arabs are Muslims, Christians and Jews as well.

“You say you want and honest and fruitful discussion, but is clear you don’t want anyone serioulsy questioning the standard Arab/Palestinian take on the

Israeli-Palestinian problem.”
John, if that was how I think I would’ve simply ignored your comment, deleted it, blocked or whatever. I just expressed my firm stand in

this, because I really can’t understand why you would buy the words of someone claiming we are liars, and at the same time condemn a Muslim criticizing the

exaggeration in using the holocaust for Israel’s interest, while I can’t buy or condemn anything! And if I condemn I’m simply someone who’s not open to

discussion!!

“most Arabs I’ve discussed this conflict with don’t care to debate the fine details of the subject; they insist they are right and that is that.”

Did it ever cross your mind that maybe we think that you and many others are the ones who insist they are right and that’s it! Believe me, I lost interest in discussing

the Palestinian conflict because everyone I’ve ever talked to about this wanted to prove they’re right and I’m wrong, they didn’t talk to discuss or listen,

that’s why I don’t wish to waste my time any longer. You’re free to think whatever you are, because obviously our voice, no matter how hard we try to make it

clear, is always the unheard one.

About the media, I was talking about the majority of western media, not the Arab owned media, because it is the main source of

info westerners turn to, but al Jazeera, Almanar and other Arab owned channels, who say the truth are considered terrorist channels that are blocked and condemned in

many western countries.
Of course we know that many non-jews work in media, but that doesn’t change the fact the influential works that are aired to people in the

west are pro-Israeli. This is not only the opinion of Arabs but many western peace activists and European channels as well.

“I think Arabs are sometimes a little

jealous that they haven’t been as successful. If they were more open-minded and democratic and had societies that tolerated more honest and open discourse, they

probably would be more successful”
Arabs are extremely successful and highly educated despite the ugly picture some people draw about them, and despite the

occupation many of them face. I, for one am so proud for being an Arab, and wont trade that for the whole world.
And again I have to remind you that many Jews are

Arabs as well, so please don’t you live this conspiracy of Arabs being the jealous ones!

“However, over the past several centuries they have been stagnant and

have fallen behind the West.” You’re absolutely right, but this is because of 2 reasons: imperialism, and being so busy trying to win the west’s admiration by letting

go our own culture, lest we’ll be called backward and uncivilized!
It’s not because of not being so open-minded today, it’s just the direction today’s Arabs

are going… instead of focusing on progress and achievements, they’re so busy dressing up, speaking, eating, and living like the west. Many Arabs are shallow and live

for this only reason John, and many don’t. The irony is, those shallow people are the ones called open-minded, and others are the ones to be called backwards and

intolerant!

“ I have to tell you, Jews are just people like everybody else.” You don’t need to say that, we all know that, and we’ve never been against

Jews or Judaism rather than the extremists and Zionists.

“How would you feel if somebody, with insulting words backed by no factual evidence, defamed your

relatives? I think you would be very offended.”
Again, there’s a big difference between me being anti-Zionist who have no aim in the world but delete the existence

of my relatives, my home and my neighbourhood, and being anti-Jewish. There are many Jews who fight hand in hand with Palestinians, who write about Palestinians and

their suffering, I’m not against Jews, I am against the Zionists who believe they can’t co-exist with Palestinians. So if you still want to feel offended, I’m sorry, I

have nothing else to say.

Comment by hossein

February 8, 2006 @ 1:18 pm

If West countries believe freedom of expression, Why prison every talks about the myth Holocaust? I think freedom of

expression is a lie.